This discussion brings together Tani Barlow and Suzy Kim, with discussants Jin Jiang and Minah Kang, exploring groundbreaking feminist historiographies in modern China and North Korea through their recent works In the Event of Women (Duke, 2021) and Among Women across Worlds (Cornell, 2023).
The East Asian Studies Program at Johns Hopkins University hosted a dual book talk titled “Gender, Politics, Asia Critique” on October 26, 2023, featuring two groundbreaking works in feminist historiography: Tani Barlow’s In the Event of Women (Duke University Press, 2021) and Suzy Kim’s Among Women across Worlds: North Korea in the Global Cold War (Cornell University Press, 2023). The conversation, moderated by Lan Li, brought together the authors with discussants Jin Jiang and Minah Kang for a conversation exploring the intersections of gender, politics, and historical methodology in East Asian studies.
The discussion particularly highlighted methodological innovations in feminist historiography, from Barlow’s analysis of advertising and sociological discourse to Kim’s use of international women’s organization archives to uncover previously overlooked transnational connections. As senior editors of positions: asia critique, both scholars reflected on how their work contributes to destabilizing traditional boundaries in Asian studies while recovering complex histories of women’s political engagement across national borders.
Tani Barlow is the George and Nancy Rupp Professor of Humanities in the Department of History at Rice University. She is the founding senior editor of positions: asia critique and specializes in Chinese intellectual and women’s history. Her research focuses on modern Chinese history, particularly examining women’s history, commercial culture, and intellectual developments in late 19th and early 20th century China. She has authored several influential books including The Question of Women in Chinese Feminism and co-founded the Chinese Commercial Advertising Archive.
Suzy Kim is Professor of Korean History at Rutgers University and senior editor of positions: asia critique. Her scholarship focuses on modern Korean history, particularly examining the social and cultural dimensions of the North Korean revolution. She is the author of the prize-winning book Everyday Life in the North Korean Revolution, 1945-1950 and Among Women across Worlds: North Korea in the Global Cold War. Her research interests span global Cold War history, transnational feminisms, and social movements.
Jin Jiang is the Yeung Family Distinguished Visiting Professor in East Asian Studies at Johns Hopkins University and Professor Emeritus at East China Normal University. Her research examines the intersection of women and gender studies, popular culture, and Shanghai history. She is known for her book Women Playing Men: Yue Opera and Social Change in Twentieth-Century Shanghai and her extensive work on entertainment culture in early twentieth-century Shanghai.
Minah Kang is a graduate student in Political Science at Johns Hopkins University. Her research focuses on international influences on domestic politics, state-society relations, and political exclusion, with particular emphasis on the global history of the Cold War in East Asia and the Korean War.
Lan A. Li is Assistant Professor in the Institute of the History of Medicine at Johns Hopkins University. She is a historian and filmmaker focusing on technologies of the body in global East Asia. Li is the author of Body Maps: Improvising Meridians and Nerves in Global Chinese Medicine (Johns Hopkins University Press, 2025).
Book Origins and Methodologies
Barlow’s evolution from “The Question of Women in Chinese Feminism” to “In the Event of Women”; Kim’s discovery of North Korean women’s transnational connections through the WIDF archives; discussion of methods & challenges in accessing materials
TANI BARLOW
First of all, I’d like to extend my gratitude to everyone involved in organizing this event. Professor Li, who used to be my colleague at Rice University, is a valuable addition to your team, and I believe her idea of a joint book discussion is brilliant. I’m delighted to be here and especially thankful to Professor Kim. I will take about five to seven minutes to explain why I wrote these two books.
My initial book was intended to be titled The Subject of Women in Chinese Feminism. However, my editor rejected the term “subject” because he believed it might be unclear. As it turns out, he was mistaken, but I replaced the subject with “question.” He was a kind man but not well-versed in feminist debates, where the concept of the ‘subject of women’ was central. Regardless of one’s discipline, in the general debate, the central issue became challenging assumptions about what the subject of women was, in the world and in philosophy. I primarily examined discursivity in the first book because I had a profound interest in literary texts and cultural critique.
The book I’m discussing today, In The Event of Women, allowed me to contemplate the challenges discursivity poses. Of course, we need to grasp why intellectuals think, and intellectual historians can explore why people think about the future (what I develop as the concept of “future anteriority,”) in order to understand how people anticipate the future, how their hopes for the future were influencing their choices.
Also, I realized I hadn’t explored the issue of reproduction and its significance in women’s history and feminist studies. Charlotte Furth once said to me that it’s not just about sexuality but also sexual reproduction, a valid point. This led me to consider how people perceived reproduction before understanding the sperm and the egg. I delved into sociological readings influenced by these concerns.
Another continuing concern in my scholarship is intertextuality, which may be familiar to literature experts. Historians try to identify the person who “pulled the trigger.” For instance, if we are investigating the circumstances surrounding a dead body, say if murder has occurred, it is our responsibility to find out who did the murder. In the analogy of political events, we look into the political economy and social life. These “conditions for knowledge” I detailed in the first chapter of In The Event of Women. One of those conditions was the social science of selling commodities, and I wrote a lot about commercial advertising and how it explains industrially produced commodity use in everyday life. I argue that our understanding of commodities is mediated by commercial advertisements.
This made me ponder the difference between writing a theory and inspiring action. Wang Guangmei and Jiang Qing, the figures I end the book with, were powerful and could commit each other to prison. Here, it’s not about literary charisma or theorizing; it’s more about political action. People act for various reasons, one being the belief that they are right and their political enemies are wrong, which is a claim to truth. My book, In the Event of Women, plays on words to convey that there is no stable definition of “woman.” The meta-argument is that women are always present, even if not always represented in historical documents. I aspire to portray a woman in historical work who is both different and equal to a man.
As I worked on this material over the years, I found myself delving into the ontology of life and society, which is now my current project. I’m fascinated by sociology and the fusion of ideas and theories about society and material life. Some historians disagree with the non-narrative quality of my work, but I believe theorists are the ones who push the boundaries of history, establishing the truthfulness of historicity.
LAN LI
Thank you so much. Professor Kim, would you mind sharing a bit about the genesis of this book, how it connects to your first book if it does, and how it fits into the field?
SUZY KIM
A good place for me to start is the story of how the book came about as a result of meeting Tani Barlow. Unlike Tani’s explanation of how her first book connects to the second, I had no idea what my second book was going to be when I wrote my first book. Scholars in mid-career often struggle with what the second book will be about because the first book is usually based on their dissertation. However, I was invited to a communist feminism conference in 2012 at Rice University, which Tani and Anna Krylova co-organized. At that conference, I met Francisca de Haan, who had pioneered research on the Women’s International Democratic Federation, an umbrella organization formed in 1945 by European women active in the anti-fascist movement during World War II. The North Korean women’s group joined this organization. She alerted me that North Korean women were very active in this international group, and this information was surprising to me.
I had come across references to the WIDF in North Korea source materials while working on my first book, but I didn’t think there would be an archive related to this group. The first book had essentially ended in 1950, just before the start of the Korean War. This was largely due to the kind of access I had to archival materials, which were “captured” North Korean documents (by the United States) from the Korean War. These documents enabled many historians to write various histories, from economics to social issues. After attending the conference, I started looking into the WIDF archives, specifically the Sophia Smith collection and the International Institute for Social History in Amsterdam. I also visited archives in Moscow.
In 2018, I had the opportunity to visit the Lenin Library, which houses one of the largest collections of North Korean materials. These materials were not archival in the strict sense, but they included published materials from North Korea. I found materials from the 1920s and 30s published by Soviet Koreans in Russia. These were published in vernacular Korean, which was surprising to see, and I handed them off to scholars working in that period. My aim was to explore North Korea without direct access to North Korea or post-1951 archival materials, and I found my way into this research through these multiple archives. Unfortunately, because of its Cold War history and multiple relocations, the WIDF is not an organization with easily accessible archives. The headquarters has moved to Brazil, and the organization still exists, but there is no one archive of its materials. Among Women across Worlds begins just before the Korean War, focusing on the global peace movement and progresses through the war, particularly highlighting the incredible bravery of women who risked their lives to visit North Korean women in 1951, as documented by the WIDF, including in a rare film footage I found in a film archive on the outskirts of Moscow.
The book ends in 1975, which was declared the International Year of Women by the United Nations. This year is celebrated today, often through quotations from Hillary Clinton, who stated in Beijing that “women’s rights are human rights.” But before that, the international socialist women’s movement, under the WIDF umbrella, was already advocating for these rights throughout the Cold War. North Korean women were an active part of this movement. The book looks at the history of North Korea through the lens of its participation in these international movements.
Theoretical Frameworks and Concepts
The “event of women” as a theoretical intervention; the intersection of physiology, sociology, and evolution in Chinese feminist thought; translation and transformation of gender concepts (xingbie, shehui xingbie)
LAN LI
Thank you. Now, let’s return to our discussion of In the Event of Women with Professor Jin Jiang’s comments.
JIN JIANG
This book is remarkable. I mean, the first few pages threw me off. “Oh wow, someone is finally saying these things,” like physiology and sociology, and the part about He-Yin Zhen 何殷震 was so good. I think this is something in modern Chinese history, as well as women and gender in 20th-century China. So much was focused on the political and social sides, right? And this bio-side, or sex, sexuality – that side really very little original research has been done. Susan Mann wrote a book that is not original research but a summary of secondary research that was already very rare.
I was blown away that there was a “Chinese woman” as early as the early 20th century, so bold, so brave, and so insightful. Starting from the very beginning, Tani, you made it clear in the first chapter that the conditions of thinking were laid out very well. That’s absolutely very creative! Very original, stepping away from the garbage from history that formed the field and conditioned how people think about things, right.
So the “event of women” happens to be the topic of your book, but this kind of methodology, I think, can be used in other studies too, you know? Whatever phenomenon you study or other arguments or intellectual history you study, pay attention to the field and the conditions of thinking. Because the first chapter is so new, I read it very carefully. Actually, I read it before the introduction. Sometimes, I do things like this – you read the introduction but don’t know what will be covered. So I read the chapter first, then went back to the introduction, and it really made good sense. It helps. Also, in the previous chapter, He Zhen’s line of thinking and her line of argument were just so interesting, right? It’s a mammal thing, going back to the origin of the human race – everything should start from the very beginning. Our understanding of human society, the human body, and the female body started right there in mammals. So that was really great.
So, physiology and sociology somehow converge to advance an argument about the truth of women, right? So that’s really good. So, on this topic, I have some questions I hope Tani can enlighten us more about.
When I was reading your description of He Zhen, something popped into my mind – this traditional discourse of femme fatale from early on in Chinese history. You have Lian Nü Zhuan (列女傳), the biographies of women that divided women into categories and the last category was this femme fatale form. Since He Zhen was turning this femme fatale upside down! It was a bad, evil force, but it was also a natural force, a force in nature, embedded in the female body, and it caused destruction. And you have He Zhen saying, “Yes, this is where we are from. And we need to have some sociology and good sociology to make it work,” right? So it’s fundamental. We need to make it work.
Related, I started to think, Tani, that your book is focused on this intersection of psychology and sociology in the 20th century. People think about women as an event, and in biographies of women, there are so many categories. Also, before your book, the main focus of feminist studies and women’s history was social and political aspects.
We have the family reform discourse, and people have all jumped in to advance their own version of what a family should be like. This family crisis in the early 20th century was a prominent topic for everyone to engage in, not just women but men, the New Culturalists, the Nationalist Government, the KMT Government, the Legalists, and the Communists. So everyone was engaged in this topic of family crisis and what the right family format should be. And, of course, you have the women’s role and what is the proper role of women to play. So that is the overwhelming discourse. So, other discourses, like the women’s suffrage movement, are also included. Maybe you say a few words about the relationship between sex, sexuality, and women’s physiology. What kind of relationship is there between this kind of knowledge and these social and political discourses on the truth of women? They also talk about the truth of women, so this is one easy question for you.
TANI BARLOW
I want to express my sincere gratitude for this opportunity. The kind of history I aspire to write follows an age-old tradition of seeking meaning in historical sources. It examines the interplay of physiology, sociology, and evolution, both in Europe and the United States, and especially in China. I never felt the need to disentangle these threads; instead, my focus was on understanding why they intertwined. This led me to ponder the nature of a discipline, which is essentially a sociological construct. I recall someone once telling me about “crazy Chinese sociological philosophers” when I was working on my first book. They asserted that these thinkers were not crazy; they were free. This freedom stemmed from their inventiveness in merging concepts that mattered to them. This fusion is linked to the idea of natural rights, a recurring theme in my book, which I believe is connected to the human body. The term “natural” implies that these rights are universal, yet women often find themselves in a disadvantaged position due to the lack of recognition of their natural rights. I haven’t fully grasped how these elements are integrated, but that’s the puzzle I’m tackling.
Now, regarding the concept of gender history, I must acknowledge Professor Wang Zheng, who, back in the eighties, boldly declared me to be a gender historian. When I met Wang Zheng, she was a student at Shanghai Normal School. I later helped her pursue her PhD in US history at Davis, and she eventually veered into Chinese history. My actual dissertation had primarily focused on an intellectual biography of the writer Ding Ling. Still, as my research interests evolved, I found inspiration in continental theories that addressed Marxism, feminism, male-female dynamics, and more. These theories – debated in a small theory journal called m/f – argued that every document could be a source of knowledge about sexual differences if you looked for it, which became my approach. This approach contributed to the emergence of “gender history,” a hypothesis championed by Joan Scott, though it’s important to recognize that distinguishing sex from social constructs remains a hypothesis.
Unfortunately, when the Ford Foundation embraced “gender history,” it evolved into dogma and gender mainstreaming, a discourse adopted by the United Nations. While it posed a challenge to me because it is a governance policy, not a philosophy, I came to understand the role it played in Asian women’s movements. For instance, it was vital for Japanese feminists, who advocated “gender mainstreaming” because the rhetoric anchored domestic movements for the civil rights of women and sexual minorities. This is what was shaped by the women’s division of the Japanese International Cooperation Association and her dedication to alleviating women’s suffering, which Yumiko Tanaka, who recently passed away, had run for many years.
The “gender initiative” opened ways of writing women’s history without homogenizing women into a singular category. It recognized the complexity of women’s experiences, addressing issues overlooked in the US and Europe, such as the experiences of women of color. The gender hypothesis prompted us to explore numerous questions. I encountered the term “xingbie 性别,” which means anatomical gender in the 1920s. It is a direct translation from natural science to social science, distinguishing human beings from other species.
JIN JIANG
I’d like to address the use of the term “gender” in the Chinese language, primarily within a Chinese context. It does something else I don’t like. You know “gender” is “shehui xingbie 社会性别.” This is supposed to be a construct and “gender” and “sex.” The difference between shehui xingbie 社会性别 and xingbie 性别 is that xingbie 性别 is “natural.” Only, “xingbie 性别” is not natural, it’s also a construct. So it’s confusing. An entire generation of young scholars were educated in this idea of a social xingbie, “shehui xingbie 社会性别.” I couldn’t even stop my own students from “shehui xingbie.” I told them to use “xingbie,” not “shehui xingbie.” I told them that Charlotte Furth said that the body is a construct and sex is a construct. They couldn’t follow.
TANI BARLOW
It’s essential to acknowledge that women in the pre-modern period, such as those studied by Charlotte Furth and Susan Mann, were grappling with neologisms and categories, emphasizing the constructivist nature of these terms, just as you’ve pointed out.
Colonial Modernity and Global Connections
Impact of capitalism and colonial modernity on women’s movements; advertising and commercial culture in shaping women’s history; transnational solidarity in Third World women’s movements
JIN JIANG
Building upon Tani’s comments, I find myself contemplating the notion of “unnatural rights.” As I read your book, I began to think about the Chinese tradition, which embraces a naturalistic approach inherent in Chinese cosmology. Chinese cosmology lacks a creator, and it views the world as a product of energies, like yin and yang, in perpetual interaction. This cosmological perspective, which you emphasize, has its roots in Chinese thought. I’m intrigued by intellectuals like Cochin and Rita, among others. They might not explicitly articulate their distinct way of thinking, which is deeply rooted in Chinese cosmology. Confucius himself exemplified a naturalistic approach when he said, “Sitting here.” This approach significantly influences their perspectives on the human body. Transitioning from English biological and scientific language to the realm of Chinese cosmology, I ponder how these intellectuals navigate this transition and the influence of Chinese cosmology.
As a follow-up question, I’d like to delve into the impact of colonial modernity. In the early 20th century, the “event of a woman” in China was catalyzed by capitalist intrusion into Chinese trading ports, complete with various forms of ephemera. I find your exploration of this fascinating. Advertising, although something I used to disregard, became a historical material with lasting significance, as you’ve aptly pointed out. It’s remarkable how, even when we consciously reject it, advertising leaves a residual impact, and I’ve come to acknowledge this after reading your work. I’m interested in the convergence of colonial modernity and traditional Chinese thought. This collision gave rise to figures like Hans, who had theories on the “truth of a woman.” I wonder if the logic of capitalism is universal, transcending geographical boundaries and how it interacts with distinct local contexts. I’m curious to know your thoughts on how the universal logic of capitalism, when introduced to various regions, instigates a historical transformation. The “event of a woman” seems central to this transformation, but it likely manifests differently in diverse contexts due to unique cultural and historical backgrounds.
TANI BARLOW
Understanding the impact of the logic of capital and how it unfolds is indeed a central issue. It’s important to recognize that scholars have been exploring the complexities of advertising within colonial contexts for a long time, and this conversation remains ongoing. The fusion of colonial modernity and traditional Chinese thought is a dynamic field for exploration. I appreciate your keen observations about the intersection of universal capitalist logic and the specificities of various regions. The “event of a woman” is a compelling concept, and I’m interested in how it manifests in different cultural and historical contexts.
Understanding the role of capital and its consequences is indeed at the core of our exploration. I recall our initial foray into this subject while collaborating on the book The Modern Girl Around the World. Our collaboration brought together historians from the University of Washington’s history department, along with the valuable contribution of Ito Ruri from Ochanomizu Women’s University, forming a second pan-Asian group. In the Asia collective, our focus was also on advertising, but with a distinct perspective – analyzing it through the lens of capital’s logic, what Mariko theorized as the desire for capital.
It’s worth noting that my colleagues at the University of Washington showed more interest in emphasizing commonalities rather than delving into the complexities of colonial modernity, which, in their view, seemed somewhat perplexing. However, the Japanese members of the group were intrigued by the differences, given Japan’s unique historical context. This divergence of perspectives led to robust discussions on understanding phenomena like the Korean modern girl within a colonial context. This dialogue has a rich history, and I sensed an unfinished aspect of this project. What particularly captures my attention is the intersection between Chinese philosophers, not with Darwin, but with Henri Bergson. I’ve encountered discussions about Bergson’s holistic theories and their intersection with 18th-century Confucian philosophy. These Chinese theorists grapple with questions surrounding bodily form and sex, specifically the concept of xing 性, which is the first character in “xingbie 性别,” or gender. They aimed to discern the place of sex within the inherited framework.
What piqued my interest is their alignment with theoretical frameworks found in Bergson’s work, elements that aren’t readily available in the field of institutional or mainstream sociology. Sociology became a subject taught in educational institutions, an ideology of the state. The materials I’ve acquired from libraries in China primarily originated from Japanese translations of European languages and were published as educational resources. In contrast, when it comes to the realm of philosophy, people gravitate towards continental and particularly French philosophy. Your observation about this fusion of the inherited body of thought and modern human science is correct. I acknowledge the challenges I face personally, as my knowledge of 18th-century philosophy is limited. Consequently, understanding these texts proves to be quite a challenging endeavor. Nevertheless, your insights ring true.
LAN LI
Minah, do you want to start with your questions related to Suzy’s book?
MINAH KANG
Thank you, and it’s a pleasure to dive into a conversation about Dr. Kim’s work. As she introduced earlier, her book unpacks the narrative of the socialist side’s peace movement, focusing on transnational connections among women. Throughout the book, readers will encounter an array of captivating names and stories portraying the resilience and insight of North Korean women. However, one of the most significant aspects is the critical force behind the emergence of the Third World movement, usually exemplified by the Bandung Conference. The Third World movement was an anti-imperialist project, and at its core were women’s, especially North Korean women’s, transnational mobility and solidarity during the colonial era against Japan and the transnational anti-war movement during the Korean War. So, Dr Kim’s work is reshaping the Cold War historiography by highlighting the engagement and contentions of socialist feminists.
I found myself quite unfamiliar with these names and narratives despite my deep interest in Asian gender history, particularly in Korea. It made me realize how the lens through which we learn has been heavily influenced by geopolitical factors. Surprisingly, I graduated from Ewha Womans University, an institution established by a liberal feminist, as Suzy mentioned in the book, and majored in gender studies during my undergraduate years. Despite my exposure to socialist feminism and readings of Lenin and Engels, North Korea was never part of our discourse. So, I truly enjoyed and learned a great deal from Dr. Kim’s work.
Now, moving to my question, I’d like to focus on the methodology. You’ve explained quite a bit already, but I have a straightforward query. I’ve learned that in the study of North Korea, particularly within the context of international relations, scholars often rely on official documents or the testimonies of visitors and defectors. What struck me about your work was your use of reports and magazines from the international conventions. I’m curious about the languages used during these international conferences. I’ve noticed some people use Russian, but I’m uncertain about WIDF, which originated in France. I’m intrigued to understand the linguistic dynamics at play – how North Korean women, alongside women from other countries, approached language. This question arises from my own experiences when studying North Korean sources. My master’s advisor emphasized the distinction between North Korean and South Korean languages and the importance of learning the North Korean language when engaging with their resources, particularly on terms like peace or denuclearization. Hence, I’d appreciate your insights on this methodological aspect.
SUZY KIM
Thank you so much for your kind words and for bringing up the limited awareness of this material, even among seasoned historians in South Korea. I agree that it’s more about the conditions of knowledge than personal blame.
Regarding the languages used at these international conferences, while I don’t have a definitive answer, I do recall references in some reports mentioning the presence of a significant number of interpreters. They worked simultaneously throughout the conference, surpassing even the United Nations in terms of scale, as the UN mainly interprets in its five official languages. These conferences accommodated many more languages due to their global composition. It’s important to consider that the UN was predominantly driven by the so-called Western world until the 1960s and 70s. Third World representation began to rise as these countries gained independence. Consequently, the significance of these congresses in amplifying the voices of the Third World, even more than official forums, is evident.
The approach of North Korean women to languages is not entirely clear. I assume that they had to bring their interpreters with them, but the records are thin, and I can’t access the North Korean side, which is quite frustrating. However, I can share a fascinating incident. During the 1963 World Congress of Women held in Moscow, coinciding with the height of the Sino-Soviet split, the split’s influence was felt at the Women’s Congress, mainly because it took place in Moscow. Chinese women, along with other Third World women, were in attendance. The official record portrays the Congress as a success with resolutions passed in consensus, but an alternative account from Beijing contradicts this narrative. According to the Chinese women’s experience, they attempted to express dissent regarding “peaceful coexistence.” The Soviets were in favor of détente with the United States, while the Chinese and other Third World women argued that the anti-imperialist struggle should continue. When they tried to voice this dissent, the lights were turned off, and the speakers were silenced. This incident sheds light on the geopolitical divides at the time.
This prompted me to think about where the North Korean women stood during these events. Unfortunately, there’s no archive for the North Korean Women’s Union, and finding information on their involvement is challenging. I did a database search of the official Korean Workers’ Party newspaper, Rodong Sinmun, and found a unique occurrence. For this specific Congress, their official position, akin to the Chinese women’s stance, made it into the papers. It revealed that they, too, attempted to speak, but the lights were turned off and the microphones silenced. This historical incident highlights the complexity of global geopolitics and the tensions even within seemingly unified international movements.
As for the languages used, while I don’t have a clear answer, I would imagine that interpreters were necessary for North Korean women, considering the multilingual nature of these international gatherings.
As a side note, I had the opportunity to participate in a remarkable peace walk involving 30 women from 17 nations, organized for the 70th anniversary of the Korean Peninsula’s division. We chose the date of May 24, aligning with International Women’s Day for Disarmament. During my research, I discovered the history of the international women who visited North Korea to investigate war crimes in 1951 and realized that they were also present in May 1951. These historical coincidences significantly influenced our peace walk. When negotiating with South Korean and North Korean officials for approval, the North Korean representative asked, “Why women?” I explained the historical precedent of the international women’s visit in 1951, which was crucial in gaining North Korean approval. This historical knowledge played an unexpected diplomatic role in the process.
It’s quite fascinating how history can intersect with contemporary events in unexpected ways.
Peace, Politics, and Women’s Agency
Maternity as political strategy in North Korean women’s movements; redefining peace through women’s activism; North Korean women’s participation in global peace movements; tension between pacifism and militant peace; role of women in Cold War politics and diplomacy
JIN JIANG
Historians did history.
SUZY KIM
The historical aspect of this experience was genuinely significant. I’ve found that, in the context of diplomatic affairs in former Eastern European countries and the former Soviet Union, there’s a deep appreciation for history’s role. In contrast, in the United States, there is a lack of understanding of history’s potential significance. The difference is night and day.
The entire journey of planning and executing the peace walk across the DMZ was filled with discussions, both in preparation and while we were there. We hadn’t received approval from the South Korean side yet, so we were in a sort of limbo. We had flown to Beijing to enter Korea, and if we didn’t receive approval, we’d have to fly back to Beijing and then on to South Korea. So, every night, we had intense discussions with 30 women, debating our strategy and pondering whether we should proceed. Living through that experience while writing this book felt like existing in two timelines simultaneously, one in the 1950s and one in the present. The earlier history significantly influenced our efforts, and in turn, our contemporary experiences helped me understand what those women went through.
I recognize that there are different types of historians, from strict positivists who demand concrete evidence to those who fill gaps in history with creative interpretations. I consider myself fortunate to have these parallel universes running in my life. It’s an unscripted confluence, and I owe my gratitude to the women of the 1950s and my academic comrades today.
I hope this clarifies the interconnectedness of my experiences.
MINAH KANG
After reading this book, I’ve gained a deeper understanding of the language used in politics, particularly in the context of the Korean War. It’s interesting to note that what we commonly refer to as the “Korean War” is called the “National Liberation War” by the North Koreans. For those of us in South Korea, this term can be perplexing, as it seems to suggest that the Kim Regime aimed to liberate the South Korean government with its ideology. The idea of ‘national liberation’ can sound strange, even to me.
However, as I delved into this book and observed how these women strategically employed the concept of maternity to create their unique perspective on ‘peace,’ I realized it wasn’t a passive or pacifist form of peace but rather a form of resistance against imperialism. This leads me to my second question, which centers on the complex relationship between the concepts of peace and maternity.
I believe this point expands upon the conventional understanding that peace/anti-war movements and women’s movements often overlap. It’s intriguing but also potentially risky. As you explained, these women in this story strategically used a sort of “universal” language of maternity to gain transnational support while advocating for militant peace against an imperialist force, which was different from the Western concept of pacifism, which often implies the mere absence of war.
What struck me was a specific scene on page 120, where, during a maternity debate, they reached a consensus: the arrival of a new human being is not a private event. This agreement seemed to bring together two sides, one supporting traditional gender roles and the other advocating against all forms of discrimination against women. In my understanding, this transformation of maternity into a political event allowed them to introduce their own concept of peace, what they call ‘militant peace.’
SUZY KIM
Thank you for pointing that out. It connects really well with Tani’s book and the concept of the “event,” which is also the title of her book. It’s a crucial aspect for me, and I’ve seen it used in various contexts. For example, Japanese feminist Ueno Chizuko’s work on the “comfort women” movement discusses how to establish it as a historical fact. She criticizes positivist historians who conform to the rules of the game by trying to provide what positivists demand. But that approach doesn’t address the real struggle, which is about determining what we consider to be the truth. It’s about transforming the idea that rape is a war crime into a new epistemology through political struggle. It’s essentially the argument I understand Tani is making, that the idea of “woman” is an event in itself.
Drawing on this theoretical foundation, I’ve tried to make it accessible to a broader audience, as I have both an intellectual and public advocacy role. This led me to explore how motherhood or maternalism can become a political identity rather than just a biological one. The women were engaged in political work and struggled to make this shift a reality. However, the context can influence how it’s received or interpreted, and this interpretation isn’t always under their control, resulting in multiple effects.
I appreciate your recognition of the ambivalence in how the argument was received. In our liberal society, we often see it as a completely personal and individualized event, but the women argued that it’s not a private affair; it should be a social issue for the entire community to take responsibility for.
Regarding the argument on peace, I don’t consider it entirely novel. The distinction between pacifism, renouncing all forms of violence, and the practicality of this stance in the face of colonial violence isn’t new. When a community or society is confronting such violence, the choice isn’t as simple as renouncing violence completely. It’s akin to saying that they should allow themselves to be subjected to endless slaughter. The argument is relevant in various contexts, like the recent events in Israel and Gaza, highlighting the complexities of responding to violence. I don’t advocate violence per se, but the response to violence is a difficult choice. The concept of the “militancy of peace,” drawn from my sources, captures the idea that envisioning peace in radical ways can be a political event, much like the emergence of maternalism as a political strategy.
positions: asia critique and Visual Politics
Origins of the journal through Tseng Kwong Chi’s performative art; destabilizing preconceptions about Asia through visual cultures; breaking boundaries between Asian and Asian American studies; historical continuity of feminist and intersectional thought
LAN LI
Why don’t we switch gears and continue this conversation between Tani and Suzy about positions: asia critique and how you’re expanding the field of Asia critique. After that, we can open it up for Q&A.
Tani, would you like to introduce the origins of positions, beginning with the image we see here?
TANI BARLOW
My late husband actually discovered this artist, probably in a book on Asian American artists in the Bay Area. We both became big fans of his work. So, this image has become iconic for scholars wandering in the desert.
SUZY KIM
When I first saw this, I thought it was an actual historical photograph. I didn’t know that it was performative.
TANI BARLOW
Apologies, I should elaborate on this. The individual I’m referring to was a performance artist from the same generation as Keith Haring. They were closely acquainted and collaborated in the East Village. Both of them were pioneers in creating languages that intertwined performance, politics, and their sexuality. Tragically, both artists succumbed to HIV-related illnesses.
The image I’d like to highlight here was found in a recent newspaper article. It mentioned an unknown photographer capturing this moment. Keith Haring’s transformation of graffiti into high art is well-known. Similarly, the figure I’m discussing, a “fake Tseng Kwong Chi” wasn’t Chinese; he was from Hong Kong. He identified as queer and was certainly not a Chinese communist cadre. He would dress up in various costumes and perform in unconventional settings, one of the early proponents of this type of performance art.
I recommend Donald Lowe’s short essay on Tseng in the first issue of positions. There, Lowe discusses how Tseng’s art destabilizes “China” and how the post-Marxist and Jamesonian notions of post-modernism and post-colonialism are, in fact, cultural politics. In the case of this artist, Tseng Kwong Chi, his work was provoking, occasionally unsettling, because he juxtaposed the image of a communist figure with symbols like Mickey Mouse of the Eiffel Tower, constantly challenging our perception and stereotypes of where a “Chinese Communist” belongs. Tseng named the photo in this slide ‘Walking the Horse,’ perhaps implying there’s an invisible horse behind him. Yet, when you examine his work, you’ll notice that there’s always that hidden string, sometimes held in his hand and other times concealed, which connects the photographer, Tseng, to the camera, which will shoot this performance and make it an enigmatic photo image. It’s a testament to his ability to mystify and intrigue his audience.
SUZY KIM
I really appreciate how the founding of positions journal in 1993 was centered on visually destabilizing our preconceived notions about Asia. It’s fascinating to see the ongoing conversation about transgressing the boundaries between different area studies, like Asian studies and Asian American studies. This dialogue might seem new, but it’s not. In fact, while researching my book, I came across historical instances that predate many contemporary ideas.
For example, concepts such as human rights and women’s rights existed long before Hillary Clinton’s involvement in the Beijing conference. The idea that ‘the personal is political’ or the concept of intersectionality has roots that go back further than we often acknowledge. While Kimberlé Crenshaw codified the term ‘intersectionality,’ the underlying ideas were present before her time. I’ve found myself repeating this point like a broken record, but it’s crucial to remember that many ideas and concepts have deep historical roots. There’s often a tendency to believe that everything is entirely new, but history tells a different story.
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